This article might also be subtitled, Is there a future for anime & manga in dealer’s rooms?
Anime Expo was awesome, hands down. If I have panels accepted next year, I will make an effort to return, definitely. And there are many critical comments I can make about Anime Expo, such as the relationship between industry and fans, or the large size of the convention as justification for its importance (though in my opinion it shouldn’t have to be). Today, I’m going to focus on the Anime Expo dealers’ room.
Anime Expo’s dealers’ room is gigantic. If you’ve ever been limited to East Coast conventions, I would estimate its size to be slightly bigger than that of Otakon. For illustration, it took me a half-hour to browse through one-third of the floor, and I only stopped at two booths for a maximum of three minutes each.
Because Anime Expo is an industry convention (versus a “by fans for fans” convention), the dealers’ room also somewhat resembles Japanese industry conventions, such as Tokyo Game Show. A lot of booths exist just to advertise wares, such as this Astroy Boy movie booth. Still, while a small number of booths boasted walls of gigantic placards, Anime Expo’s room is littered with ordinary booths that hawk anime, manga, and cat ears.
I’m honestly not one of those junkies who stalk out the dealers’ room on the first day of the con, constantly returning to check up on discounted prices, lurking in the shadows to pounce on that ultra rare figure that I hid in the back corner to elude the price-sniffing of others. I buy a lot of my anime and manga online. In the past, I made minimal effort to visit Tokyo Kid, the anime store in Harvard Square. Usually, I know what I want, and I go online to find it cheaply.
Of course, nowadays with the price of DVDs and books on the decline (you can find videos on RightStuf.com for $10 or less, or books on Amazon for at least 25% off), dealer’s rooms are trying to keep up. On most Sundays the dealers scream at the top of their lungs to make sure every fan becomes aware of their “Buy 1 manga, get 5 free!” bargain. Still, after paying $50+ dollars for the convention (though I haven’t done that in a few years, due to panels), I honestly don’t want to waste a few hours in the dealer’s room only to realize that they don’t have what I want to read. Once in a while, I’ll find a great deal (like all twelve volumes of Tezuka’s “Phoenix” manga for $100 at Anime Boston), but otherwise, why can’t I just find things I want online? I’m not into serendipitous buying sprees after all.
At Anime Expo, I bought only one thing in the dealers’ room (besides an omiyage poster in the Artists’ Alley): a copy of Tezuka’s “Swallowing the Earth,” published recently by Digital Manga. Truthfully, I only grabbed it because I got an in-the-last-15-minutes discount of $20. Otherwise, I looked around at every booth, but bought nothing.
However, I came home with a lot of anime-related booty. The cause? Book Off.
I wrote in an article last week about my experiences at the Book Off in New York City and how it’s easy to find manga on the cheap, usually for $1 per volume. While at Anime Expo, I had the privilege of staying with the illustrious Deb Aoki, writer and reviewer of the About.com manga section. On Saturday afternoon, she drove me and a few writers over at Japanator.com to one of the Book Offs in Los Angeles. While not as large as the NY Book Off, I still picked up a number of intriguing items (all of them in Japanese).
First, I found two not-so-expensive “Groundwork of Evangelion” art books. As you can see from the scanned images, they were Volumes 2 and 3, and I’m not so sure where I should pick up Volume 1, but (again, looking at the scans) I only spent $12.50 and $15.00 respectively. Awesome! Especially when the MSRP of these two books is ¥2500 and ¥3000 (about $25 and $30, though these would easily sell in the dealer’s room for $45+). The books are practically new — only the edges are slightly rough — and the images inside (all production sketches with a few color illustrations in the front) will make any Eva fanboy cream his pants.
The rest of the books I picked up were only $1 each. Pretty awesome finds.
First, I picked up some manga. As I mentioned in that previous article, buying manga at Book Off is a bit difficult, not only because it’s hard to find the comics by their publisher, but also if you haven’t done any research into the comics, you’re not necessarily sure with what reading level you’re challenging yourself. However, browsing through the titles, I happened upon School Rumble, a series that I’ve never read or seen, but one that has been constantly pimped to me by a number of reliable friends. After examining the content, I decided to pick up the first four volumes (there were about a dozen there, but #5 was missing).
Next, hidden among the art book section, I found Katsuhiro Otomo’s early works Anthology. The 250-page, large-size book features about a half-dozen of Otomo’s shorter stories that were never published in English (and, according to Deb, never will be, because Otomo doesn’t like his works localized, apparently). The art is amazing, and while I’ve been looking for good copies of the English translations of the Akira manga for months, it’s certainly a nice supplement.
Finally, also among the art books, I found this $1 piece of curated information on the history and development of anime in Japan. The title reads, “The New Conquering the World Japanese Culture: Japan’s Anime.” This is pretty much the book that needs to be published in America, because it’s a really interesting primer (with hundreds of large, color images!) for any type of anime fan that doesn’t know the basic history of Japanese animation. The text covers a lot of the major players, including Miyazaki, Tezuka, Otomo, Oshii, and Anno, and also provides good context for the commercial markets of kids’ anime and toys. One chapter focuses dually on the evolution of robots and cute girls in anime. The section that convinced me to purchase the book (besides the $1 price tag), though, was the end of the compilation, which provides a lot of information on the history of anime from 1917 to 2003 (the publication date), the digital creation of anime, and particularly the relationship between anime and the television studios that produced them. The last few pages present a nice timeline of anime on television starting with Astro Boy in 1963. The opportunity to look at anime history graphically really hits home the fact that, OMG, there’s a lot of anime out there.
If I have the time in the near future, I’m going to upload a LOT of scans from this book and attempt to translate what I can.
In total, I spent less than $40 at Book Off. Of course, you need to know Japanese to purchase these and actually comprehend them, but still… $40 for 5 volumes of manga and 3 rather impressive texts. And so I return to the thought imposed on the beginning of this article: Is there a future for anime and manga in convention dealers’ rooms? Basically, the answer will always be Yes. But it may be true that the stronghold that dealers’ rooms had on fans in conventions from the 1990s has almost certainly weakened today. Some of this might be attributed to fans not purchasing series after they watch fansubs or read scanlations, but also, with Netflix, Amazon, and other cheap alternatives, fans can own media for much less than in the past. No wonder the American industry is slipping. And with streaming websites that provide free episodes to fans online… Really, how many fans are going to buy the DVDs after they watch it once? Perhaps the real question might be: What kind of value are fans assigning to the media the consume? Where does the line of rewatchability exist for modern anime fans that do not possess knowledge of “anime greats,” like Oshii and Kon, like Anno and Ishiguro? And what might the breakdown be between the consumption of anime and manga versus other things, like cat ears, figurines, and other merchandise being sold in modern exhibition halls?
This sounds like another echo of the articles that I’ve seen all over the place regarding all the “deals” to be found during the recession. It seems like in industry after industry, consumer are realizing how cheaply they can get products (often things like restaurants which can’t be gotten for free in any way like anime can) and now aren’t settling for markups.
I know how I personally never bought anime DVDs as singles (or tapes, LOL $40 for 2 episodes LOL) until the price went down to about $20 each, and then I stopped buying them at $20 once I saw all the regular sales that places like The Right Stuf would have where I could get them for sometimes as low as $5. And I’m not even one of the younger fans who was probably exposed to anime primarily on TV, a medium which just about everyone values at about zero, even if they are paying $50/month for cable. But once I realized how cheaply I could get it, why ever pay retail?
I think at the first NYAF, I bought a bunch of artbooks and a few volumes of manga and before I knew it, the bill was something like $150. The next day it was almost like a hangover. I spent HOW MUCH? The next time I went to Book-Off (about 6 months later), I saw some of the books there for literally 1/3 of the price and swore off dealer’s rooms. Now, I think if I buy anything at a dealer’s room, it’s just a small tchotke, usually $10 or under.
Lastly, on the topic of non-anime goods, I know that Erica Friedman banned yaoi and yuri paddles from the dealer’s room at Yuricon because from her research, people were spending a hugely disproportionate amount on those compared to actual anime/manga/doujinshi/etc.
- In a way, yes, it is an echo of the comments pointing out that things are cheap, but while I hope that it’s common knowledge, I would place money on the opinion that for the majority of the fandom it isn’t. There’s also that feeling of exploration when fans try to find items IRL, but I’m not sure how to factor that into the equation.
- The dichotomy between older fans/expensive media and younger fans/cheaper media is one of my favorite topics. How do we account for why sales are down, especially given that there are more public fans today?
- Given that television is valued at zero (I agree), I wonder how detrimental online streaming (aka. TV for the new generation) is to potential revenue.
- The Erica Friendman reference is actually really awesome. Maybe I’ll talk to her about it. Thanks for the testimonial.
The idea of TV being valued at zero is interesting. I presume you mean ‘why would you pay full price when you can get it for less, or even for free on television?’
Another way to look at it is: ‘why would you want to watch something that everyone else can get/watch so easily?’
Perhaps that’s more of an old-school elitist attitude, or maybe it’s just me.
It’s partially the “why pay if it’s free?” mindset, but I’m coming at it from the perspective of where the exposure to anime came from. If watching anime meant that you were watching say, InuYasha/Naruto/Death Note on Cartoon Network (which I was under the assumption is the vast majority of the current young fanbase), there would be much more an association of anime as television, which is “free” (either because it’s actually free in the case of ad-supported broadcast TV, free because your parents are paying the cable bill, or free because it becomes “too cheap to meter” if you have say, 4 people on that cable plan each watching plenty of TV that the cost per hour amortizes to a miniscule amount) even when you pay for it.
I forget what trade I saw this in, but there were a few articles in the last few weeks about how the idea of TV as free is becoming a bit of a flashpoint in the TV industry, especially between broadcast channels and cable channels. The cable channels, after all need to show that their programming has value both in order to be able to charge licensing fees to the cable providers, and in turn if they also have a cable provider component, like with Cablevision and Time Warner.
I’m always hoping that dealers’ rooms will start carrying more character goods, collectibles, and rare stuff, and not just run-of-the-mill media (which can be purchased/acquired elsewhere more conveniently). The obvious problem with rare stuff, of course, is that it’s rare (which also means that fewer people are going to be interested in it).
It’s all about catering to the Long Tail of fandom, something that Comiket seems to do well (though I haven’t been, myself).
I think the best dealers’ room I’ve been at in recent memory is the one at San Diego Comic-Con, which has a really amazing variety and balance between corporate and independent, mainstream and niche vendors. For pure anime goodness, however, I find Nakano Broadway to be the ultimate collector’s paradise, even more than Akihabara.
- I’m not so sure if the “Long Tail” theory applies to Comiket. Sure, it’s Long Tail in the sense that it’s hitting niche markets, but Comiket specifically caters to fans that are loyal to series and manga circles, versus providing niche things to an audience of everyone (and that audience picks and chooses as they like, with unforseeable results).
- I’ve actually never been to Nakano Broadway, though I know about it. When I was in Japan, most of my friends wanted to stay away from Akihabara, and I didn’t spend a lot of time with kransom.
I’m not sure if I completely follow your line of reasoning.
To clarify what I meant, however:
Comiket is a marketplace catering to Long Tail interests because there are so many sellers there that aren’t necessarily interested in selling massive quantities of books featuring the absolutely most popular series. And the different sellers are certainly not selling the exact same official merchandise you can find at Animate or Anime Expo, so even the sellers with books featuring popular series are selling niche products and are trying to differentiate themselves from other sellers by having their own unique spin on the content (that only a certain proportion of fans are going to be into–such as specific character pairings).
Beyond that, you have all the sellers who have books featuring really niche subjects, and even though their books won’t sell in large quantities, the Long Tail aspect of it all is that the niche book sales *combined* make up a significant percentage of total sales, even compared to the “hits”–the popular series and manga circles.
If you ever have a chance, I highly recommend the informative and fun Comiket panel hosted by Erin and Noah (of The Ninja Consultant podcast).
As to the Long Tail idea:
As you know, the Long Tail is based on the niche products in a general market. The Long Tail idea was created to inform the public about these niche corners of the market that were being largely ignored.
However, I don’t think that the Long Tail idea applies to Comiket. Yes, the wares being sold at Comiket certainly fall into the Long Tail, but in the end Comiket becomes its own separate market, away from that “general market.” It’s true that there’s another Long Tail inside this new market, but it’s ultimately very small and insignificant. So what you say Comiket caters to the “Long Tail of fandom,” I’m not sure if I can agree with that phrase, because it caters to fandom outright.
Okay, I think I found our point of disagreement.
I was indeed speaking about the Long Tail *within* fandom, and I disagree that it is “ultimately very small and insignificant”.
The Long Tail is made up of many niche things added together to make something bigger (the exact size is to be determined).
“Insignificant” doesn’t resonate well with me. Otaku are already used to placing high value on things that others ignore or marginalize. Being excited about obscure things is part of the otaku experience, IMO.
In any case, I say that Comiket caters to the Long Tail *within* fandom better than Anime Expo. If I’m looking for doujinshi featuring obscure shows from the 70s, where the doujin artist has depicted the human characters as animals (this is a made-up example), I’m much more likely to find it at Comiket than Anime Expo (which caters much more to the tastes of mainstream anime fans).
The example isn’t perfect, of course, since Comiket is all about doujinshi and AX isn’t. So extending the example: the specialized collector shops at Nakano Broadway cater to the Long Tail within fandom more than Anime Expo’s dealers’ room.
“Insignificant” was aimed at the commercial output of those niche-of-the-niche fans.
Your comments may have inspired another thought on discrepancies within the fandom, so maybe look out for it? ^_^
Yup, looking forward to it!
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A couple more thoughts:
There are also the (niche-within-a-niche) fans who primarily buy stuff that’s out-of-print/no-longer-in-production. I suppose “commerical output” applies differently to them, since they’re dealing within secondary markets.
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Primary works (like anime episodes and soundtracks) consumed by fans exist on physical media, and that media primarily exists to hold and transport the material to be consumed. Packaging is important but still secondary to the content, meaning that the works can be reliably purchased or acquired from just about any source, including online ones, without the risk of a significantly degraded experience.
Secondary products, like collectible character goods, are meant to be enjoyed as-is. They are physical artifacts first and foremost, which makes physical stores and convention booths well-suited for their display and sale. For that type of merchandise, it really makes a difference to see it live and in person.
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Regarding fans not rewatching stuff, I don’t know if it’s really because people lack a knowledge of the “anime greats”. I think a bigger reason is the great abundance of anime (which is something I talk about in my otaku studies panel).
Given that there are so many new shows to check out, and older ones to catch up on, there is little incentive for fans to rewatch stuff. I’d argue that “the next big thing” has never been so important to anime fandom as it is now.
It’s a great time to be a fan, because there’s so much material to be enjoyed, but the experience is markedly different from the days when fans rewatched their favorite shows over and over again, partly because nothing else was available. Old-school otaku took pleasure in diving deep into shows (beyond one-off reviews) knowing that other otaku would appreciate their explorations.
I’m not sure if that’s the case with the fandom in terms of “the next big thing”. From what I’ve seen, there’s a fairly big backlash among fansubbers these days to re-watch older shows for both old times’ sake as well as for further in depth exploration. The moe trend in recent anime may be capable of branching out and reaching a larger audience in general, in a way that older animes couldn’t, but that doesn’t mean the “next big thing” is necessarily the most important.
I’ll admit that we’re speaking of the general fandom here, which I know relatively little about. But I also feel that the Japanese otaku experience, substantially different from the foreign one, involves an appreciation of anime in a much different sense than those of the general fandom abroad. New Japanese otaku are quickly introduced to many of the anime classics and the insane amount of references in anime to those older shows. Localized products elsewhere mean these references, not part of the general culture of otaku outside of Japan, are either lost or ignored.
To tie this back to the dealers’ room topic, I believe that this difference in very nature of the Japanese and foreign fandoms mean that the dealers’ room is catering to fans who are unaware of the differing Japanese experience, and those who are very knowledgeable about Japanese otaku-dom do’t even bother with the booths. Instead, the more engaged otaku are scrounging around online for what they want.
It’s not merely the relationship between the products and the fans, but differing nature of the two fandoms and their peculiar relationships with the producers of the originals and other derivative works. The quality of the product is evaluated differently by the separate fandoms, rendering the markets completely different (which is what Alex said).
(Wider thread continued below.)
Nice finds. That Otomo Anthology looks damn sexy! The Akira manga going out of print caught me off guard as well. I kept waiting to buy the last volume until I found it on sale, I never did, and then it went out of print. Luckily I got a nick & dent copy from TFAW.com for a fraction of what those blasted Amazon sellers want, but I’d still like a clean copy.
Book Off actually had the original Akira, Vol. 3, 4 & 6. Pretty inexpensive too. However, the level of reading required is HIGH, and I don’t really want to spend days going through a few pages.
This is in response to Kylaran above. The column was getting narrower and narrower, so I’m starting a new thread.
Thanks for your insight, Kylaran. If there is indeed some kind of backlash going on where fansubbers are encouraging people to focus more on older shows, I haven’t noticed much of that myself, but I’ll keep my eye out for it and will be glad if you’re right.
One may wonder, however, if the backlash itself indicates a popular trend towards newer content (the latest shows, the upcoming season, episodes available to watch as soon as they’re broadcast on Japanese TV).
I’m also a little surprised about your comment regarding moe anime being “capable of branching out and reaching a larger audience in general.” I’m not a moe hater, but I’ve always thought of the moe trend as making anime *less* accessible to non-otaku audiences (though I acknowledge that moe is currently very popular within fandom).
I agree with your point that there are significant differences between the experience of being otaku in America versus being otaku in Japan, though otaku all over the world are probably more similar to each other than they are to non-otaku. Furthermore, otaku (in both countries) are diverse enough that we shouldn’t essentialize “Japanese otaku” versus “American otaku”. There are plenty of American otaku who are dissatisfied with dealers’ rooms at American anime cons ;)
I think we need a good cross-cultural comparison looking at otaku in both the US and Japan, something that hasn’t been done yet (afaik). Perhaps Alex (or other young scholars in the field) will be the first to do that in a thorough, systematic way.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s a high amount of visible backlash in response to the newer moe animes among fansubbers as a whole; most of those who are dissatisfied have grown up or previously worked on shows that are generally considered good, non-moe shows. However, I think there is growing awareness regarding a sort of “decline” in quality animation seen in the proliferation of current shows. Within my group alone there are usually those who are largely in favor of ecchi anime versus those interested in finding anime with a larger plot scheme that may satisfy them in other ways moe anime can’t. From what I’ve seen, this is a growing split amongst anime fans who frequent the net, appearing in such places as Danny Choo’s website amongst others.
As for what I meant about moe, I personally feel that the craze easily sucks people in. If they can’t find one form of anime they like, they can browse through the massive number of anime, manga, and games to find something they have more of an interest with. While this may turn off non-otaku who have sparse contact with otaku culture, I think the sheer amount of possible avenues to pursue otaku interests mean that it’s possible for anyone to become an anime otaku once they find that particular moe element they like. And if not moe, then another theme that’s prevalent in anime/manga.
I’ll admit I was generalizing when I made the comment about the dichotomy between Japanese otaku and foreign otaku, but I believe that this largely has to do with exposure (real life) and net culture (online). As you said, we do need a systematic way of illuminating the differing experiences of different otaku, and I think the key point to focus on would be the popularity of certain forms of contact and engagement with the fandom (be it through attending conventions or trolling 2ch online). I think something particularly interesting would be to study the relationship between foreign otaku well verse in the Japanese fandom who understand Japanese, and those who are left in the dark until localized or secondary sources can provide them with information.
There a lot of interesting divisions within anime/fandom to look at these days:
moe vs. non-moe
lolicon vs. non-lolicon
ecchi vs. g-rated
otaku vs. mainstream
tv shows vs. movies
popular vs. avante garde
new vs. old
rewatching vs. one-time viewing
…and to think, the main conflict used to be subs vs dubs ;)
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You present an interesting thought about moe and its role in the growing popularity of anime. You’re right that the medium is diverse enough that people who dig around will find something they like, moe or not. That diversity is something that has attracted Americans to anime and manga for a long time.
Some questions that come to mind (not directed at anyone in particular; they’re just food for thought):
1) Given moe’s popularity, it’s something that outside observers of anime are likely to notice. If one’s initial exposure to anime is moe-related shows, how will that color their perception of anime, especially if they’re not interested in moe (or worse, they find it offensive)?
2) Is there a difference between a) realizing/appreciating that there are many different kinds of anime, covering many unique genres versus b) appreciating the fact that there are many different kinds of moe (maids, glasses, catgirls) one can be a fan of? There is a fetish aspect to the latter that may be controversial to some.
3) Does the popularity of moe, or any other type of anime that is trendy, negatively affect the overall diversity of the medium–the diversity that was pivotal in making anime so popular in the first place (among foreign audiences)?
Sorry for not replying after so long; I hope you’ll have the opportunity to read this. If not, I hope Alex will be able to contact you (or I could just send you an e-mail, but I figured Alex might be interesting in joining in?) All of this is just food for thought, btw.
Question 1:
To me, the moe battle is a constant form of Pavlovian conditioning that is both reinforcing and negatively reinforcing. The association between a particular moe element and the character in the anime may have no relation at all, but I think much of the initial attraction for the moe element lies in its original association outside of the anime itself. That is, moe may invite curiosity or appreciation because of its potential roots previously seen in the real world.
Take for example maids. While most normal people may be averse to the idea of worshipping maid outfits, the original interest in maids were mapped with a particular personality trait (one of subservience and servitude) that may have seemed as an attractive target for appreciation, much in the same way that we’re all particular to certain love interests with a particular personality. The result is an association of anything that produces imagery of a maid being associated with the result of a maid’s behavior (the viewer’s enjoyment from seeing the character’s personality, events, etc. play out).
Now this may seem completely unrelated to how people perceive anime, I think it’s fairly important to how people view the medium in general. A failure to map the moe elements to enjoyment, for example, will not serve as a powerful enough reinforcer to create a strong dislike for anime as a whole. However, once a particular association is mapped, it serves as a powerful reminder of how the moe element can be something you like.
Thus, it’s easy to see why people would like anime for the diverse moe elements, and why there are many people who often feel indifference toward the medium itself. What people do feel a strong dislike for, however, is the fans of those moe elements who provide a powerful reinforcement mechanism for disliking the associated medium (which, in this case, is anime). A “normal” teenage guy completely uninterested in 2D moe elements may feel strongly about otaku in general because their behavior repeatedly reinforces his own belief that anime is worshipped by less than sociable people.
When I hear a general distate for moe anime, it’s largely because of the association between otaku and the moe elements, not a failure to appreciate the moe elements themselves.
Questions 2 and 3:
I would say that people recognize the general idea that moe elements are not necessarily indicative of plot nor character personality now a days, although it could very well be that they do. Either way, I would assume that most people would be aware of the situational requirements for eliciting a pleasurable viewing of an anime. For example, I personally like tsundere characters, but there’s something about Kugimiya Rie always playing flat chested tsundere’s that make me personally dislike any sort of combination of petanko and KugiRie. However, I maintain a fierce love for Nagomin (of Tsuyokiss fame). The subtle difference in plot, despite all coming from the love comedy genre is enough to for me to differentiate by. Imagine the difference across genres.
In a sense, anime’s diversity is the result of a reapplication of various pre-existing moe elements into a combination that may seem to “work”. The diversity is lowered because we can identify many elements that we’re familiar with, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ve lost the peculiar uniqueness of something generated from the slightest change. A person who fails to see the charm in a particular anime while others appreciate it usually do for various reasons. It could simply be that they didn’t find a character to connect with, or it could just be that they didn’t appreciate the combination in the first place.
I personally dislike most magical girl genre anime, except I have a fondness of Sailor Moon that has yet to go away. This fondness is indicative of the special presentation to which Sailor Moon had. What’s interesting is that magic girl shows have appeared in anime long before Sailor Moon rolled around — what Sailor Moon essentially did was create a new combination of established moe elements (they weren’t as moe as moe is now, but you get my point) for people to appreciate.
It’s funny how we’re capable of separating what we like from what we dislike often times by the way it’s different from something. A single change in a show from its predecessor can create an entirely different result.
I will outright disagree with this statement: Either way, I would assume that most people would be aware of the situational requirements for eliciting a pleasurable viewing of an anime.
I uphold that, in fact, a lot of if not most people do not have a reason for watching anime besides “it’s cool” or “I like it,” besides even approaching the subject of “I am aware of the exact elements of why I watch certain shows.” This last statement in particular really categorizes THE otaku.
I agree with your reasons for disagreeing, but I was speaking specifically from a moe point of view. While I’ll admit that I made a generalization in my earlier post (I fail! :P), I do think that moe elements as something that are distinct and visible to viewers (which I thought was a stipulation of Lawrence’s question) and active choice in picking out an anime for its moe elements (versus choosing it for its genre, etc.) means an awareness of that moe.
However, people who watch it “simply because it’s cool” do not fall under this category because the moe in the first place is not a factor in their consciencious choice in watching it. If they do decide that continuing to watch it is a result of appreciating the moe value, that’s a different categorization all together.
Kylaran:
I agree with many of your points, but I think you might be too optimisic about why some people (non-anime fans, especially) dislike moe. Yes, not everyone immediately finds the moe elements they love, and those people do not necessarily hate anime as a result. And as you say, others dislike moe because of negative experiences with fans of moe.
However, I think you’ve neglected to mention those non-fans who see moe and have a negative reaction simply because they find the imagery unattractive or even offensive. Believe it or not, there are people out there who dislike anime character designs–the same designs that most otaku find extremely attractive. Some people negatively view moe as objectifying females, catering to superficial fetishes and adolescent fantasies, and/or oversexualizing underage (or underage-looking) characters. These critics are not always right, but we can’t ignore them as we seek to popularize anime.
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Regarding your points on diversity, you don’t have to convince me that there’s plenty of diversity within shows that feature moe elements; I’ve seen it, I’m a believer! :)
In general, I’m opposed to arguments that say “_____ is all the same”. People apply that to all kinds of stuff–pop music, classical music, anime, manga, fantasy, sci-fi, superhero comics, etc.
As a fan of superhero comics, it kills me when people say “they’re all the same”, because they’re not, and I agree that the same principle applies to moe.
I generally give the benefit of the doubt to people who appreciate things because they see significant differences, versus people who dismiss things because they _don’t_ see differences. Why? Because the latter group is admitting that they don’t see something, and lack of evidence is insufficient to prove that something does not exist.
So, I’m all for postmodern creativity, pastiche, homages, derivative works, variations on a theme. Bring it on; I love it!
That said, even if we consider moe to be a genre (or sub-genre, or style) that is rich and full of variation, don’t we also want other genres to be successful? It’s not a zero sum game, of course. Different genres can coexist. The question is: how do we encourage that coexistence and spread the medium of anime to a diverse group of people with different tastes?
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My overall question is really about strategy and practical steps we can take. How do we introduce people to anime? Do we show them multiple examples of a single genre (like moe) or do we show them multiple genres of anime?
I prefer the latter approach, but of course it depends on who you’re trying to “convert”. Some individuals might respond best to moe, and you would just keep showing them moe-heavy stuff until you find the right combination of elements that they fall in love with. But for people who just aren’t into moe, or diverse crowds whose tastes are unknown to you, I would show them a broader spectrum of anime. Back to the American comic book example: if I was introducing someone to comic books, I would show them many different types of comics, and not just superhero comics, even though I know that superhero comics are full of unique variations.
On that whole topic of the broadness of the appeal of moe anime, I’m reminded of the survey done by Reverse Thieves anime blog at NYAF last year where they polled a few hundred people about Clannad and the overwhelming majority of those surveyed had never even heard of the show, and the percentage of people that liked the was I believe in the single digits.
I would not consider Clannad a moe show, although it contains moe elements. Key’s Itaru Inoue certainly draws characters who carry similar traits to modern heroines for attractiveness, but I think a combination of KyoAni’s directing and Maeda Jun’s script writing is what really sets apart Key-KyoAni animes.
To be fair, looking at something like Lucky Star would be a safer bet.
I’m going to attempt to argue that Clannad is in fact a moe show, but in a future post. Look for it.
Looking forward to it.